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Chatelle · Joined: 26 Sep 2007 Posts: 3 Location: Nowhere

Not that I think the crosses look bad, I actually love the gothic cross in its beauty. However I don't understand the symbolism. Why make a symbol of an old execution tool? Why not depict Jesus as the healer he was for the people? I know some of you interpret him as healing the human spirit on the cross, but it's definately the wrong picture of such a major religion in this modern world.
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Comrade Alex · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:15 am Post subject: Re: Why the execution tool?

Leoben Conoy · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:17 am Post subject: Re: Why the execution tool?

Comrade Alex · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:21 am Post subject:

When the Roman Empire out lawed Christianity, they used a similar arguement.
When we take Holy Communion we say we are eating the Body and drinking the Blood, they said that, there fore, Christians sacrifice and eat children.
We are not worshiping his death, we a worshiping his Resurrection from death, and we are reavering his Martydom, his sacrifice. It is a differnt thing from Death Worship.
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Alex
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Leoben Conoy · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:26 am Post subject:

Comrade Alex · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:50 am Post subject:

Ah, the misconception becomes clear!
We do not worship the Cross! Thats is Idolising, and is a Sin. We use the Cross as the symbol of our faith! As do the Scientologists.
We worship Christ, not the instrument of his demise.
Thats, is how it is.
GDGB
Alex
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Chatelle · Joined: 26 Sep 2007 Posts: 3 Location: Nowhere

No, what I really wanted to state here is the question: why do you keep it? Why are the Christians unable to demand a new symbol? I just think it's sending the wrong message about Christianity, and while I spent hours discussing this with some of the people I know, they agreed but they still refused to explain why it's impossible to change. The smaller religions have already concluded that their symbolism has to change as the time and the people are changing.
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Comrade Alex · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:38 am Post subject:

I don't know of many people who have walked past a Church, seen a crucifix and siad "Well, they are obviously blood thirsty death worshippers."
The Cross, as I have already said, symbolises the very reason that Christianity exists.
If Christ had not been executed by the Romans, then us Christians would be just antoher Jewish sect of relatively low importance, instead of one of the largest faiths in the world today.
The moment when Christ was nailed to the Cross, the moment he died, he Martyred himself. Not only did he die a horrid death, he endured 3 Days of Hell, he endured it for our Sins, so that we might be saved.
We keep the Cross as our symbol to show respect for his Sacrifice. Besides, there are other symbols of Chrsitianity, the Fish symbol for instance.
The death of Christ is why Christianity exists, that is why the Cross is our symbol.
Naturaly, you can use any symbol you want to show your faith, but the Cross is our symbol, and the reason behind it is a very good one.
I must say, I have enjoyed this deabte!
GDGB
Alex
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Leoben Conoy · Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject:

Comrade Alex · Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:41 am Post subject:

True, but I want to make it clear, We Do Not Worship The Cross, It Is The Symbol Of Our Religion, Not An Idol.
Besides, at my Church we don't worship towards the Cross, or Pray towards it, we bow our heads in Prayer, not towards the Cross.
It is just our symbol, I have explained why, its like the Ikon's of the Virgin Mary they use in Russian Orthodox Churches, Synagogues have the Star of David, but you don't say that they worship it, even if they have an enourmous one mounted on every wall, you don't say that they worship it, it is just the symbol of their faith.
As I said before, most people don't see a crucifix on the outside of a Chruch and say "They are obviously Death Cultist whose religion is based on death."
It is based on His Sacrifice, and His Ressurection.

So there.

GDGB
Alex
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Sweetie · Secretary Joined: 30 Aug 2007 Posts: 31

Batonfromage · Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject:

Comrade Alex · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:58 am Post subject:

Sindark Nave · Guest

Comrade Alex · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:20 am Post subject:

Batonfromage · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:06 am Post subject:

Sindark Nave · Guest

sorianofan · Guest

Personally, I am against the use of any idolatry. Many hindus believe in one God, but pray to (or towards) idolized avatars that represent some important function of God. God clearly warned against this. It is easy to feel holy by invoking symbols and making man-made manifestations. Because it is easy, it trivializes the faith. Faith has trials, faith is hard. Distracting oneself with the easy upper of idolatry creates a division between one and God, and it must be avoided.

Comrade Alex · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:52 am Post subject:

Here is a few more symbols (not the cross oddly enough)

GDGB
Alex
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sorianofan · Guest

Again, I stress the importance of avoiding idolatry.

Batonfromage · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:54 am Post subject:

I think there is a big difference between idolatry and symbolism. Constructing huge golden crosses and praying towards them is definitely a form of idolatry and nothing short of worshipping Satan (which I believe is how the pharaoh's magicians were able to recreate some of the plagues of Egypt). Simply invoking a cross does not warrant idolatry, it just stands as a symbol of faith. The early Christians used the Ichthys (the fish symbol) to recognize each other and hold secret gatherings.
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sorianofan · Guest

The-Eurasian-youth · Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:48 am Post subject:

I like the Russian cross.

Hasta · Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject:

Batonfromage · Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject:

sorianofan · Guest

LoreOfAKitsune · Private Joined: 28 Dec 2007 Posts: 8

I can understand where everyone is coming from, and I know this thread has been dead a while, but I would like to point out a few things. First off, the church has always been full of corruption. I feel that corruption in religion is far worse than corruption in government because most religions believe that there is "life after death". A perfect example would be the Sale of Indulgences in the Roman Catholic Church. To better explain, the Roman Catholic Church brought about Purgatory, or a tortuous state of cleansing due to sins before one can enter heaven (Purgatory is too complicated to explain here so look it up if you need to). Indulgences reduced time in purgatory, originally by spiritual or good deeds. The sale of these indulgences was used to pay for expensive churches and thus the entire corruption, at least in this case, was over unnecessary extras for churches. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Christianity believe that worshiping should be done in simplicity? Now, don't quote me on that because I'm going off of memory and I have not slept in quite some time. Second off, when the apostles traveled on Jesus' command, he told them by believing in HIM, they could perform miracles. That's a summary, not a quote by the way. I personally think that if you need to see a cross to be reminded of his sacrifice, you don't believe in him. And finally, I am not a Christian. I do not claim any religion. I believe in a higher power, but do not know what or to what extent their power resides. I do live my life the best way I can and I think that by doing so, I am a good person. Now, if a God would send a good person to hell, than he is not a loving God, thus defeating the beliefs of Christianity. I do what I believe is right, fair, and for the good of all. I will stress that last one. I do what is for the good of all. I will not bash any religion, nor will I pressure someone else to believe what I believe. And to all Christians, please remember; we cannot judge others as we do not have that right. That's a lesson the bible teaches so please live by that lesson. It bugs me to see people who claim to be Christian, but at the same time create irony in that claim by going against teaching so often that it makes the point moot.
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